Hans Wobbe



... _is currently_ ...

Engaging in a bit of "information mining" on c2 by...

adding Del Icio Us bookmarks and Dii Go annotations


Missing the use of Real Name signatures in Recent Changes.

Making rare contributions to...

Trying to improve the Signal To Noise ratio of my contributions here. I participate in various other wikis, notably... Community Wiki and the Meatball sister site. (I am striving to effectively mingle my use of various wiki sites and a few others since each offers distinct advantages.)

Feel free to leave Wiki Mail. c2.com or on my 'sister site' page at meatball.


Recent Wiki Mail...

Prior (active) Wiki Mail has been removed to the bottom segment of this page.

Past note(s) on ... Mike Smith Eddies Wiki Stuff ; Mike Smith ; About Us ; ...

localMiniBlog (of only local context items)...

2014.q4{ 2014-11-20 & ...-10-05 = quick reviews of Recent Changes ; ... }

2014.q3{ 2014-08-10 ; User Name test showed Shark Bot still active. ; ... }

2014.q2{ Tweaked this page and glanced at Recent Changes. }


2014.01 Deleted a spam logo with an indicated .ru origin that I found on this page. }

2013.q4{ shifting this microblog to ...(??) }

2013.q3{ Saddened by the demise of Meatball Wiki (now read-only, after being off-line a bit). }

2013.q1{ Eliminated my use of the User Name cookie. }

2012.q4{ ... }

2012.q3{ ... }

2012.q2{ 120408: Quarterly visit. working with[ Tiddly Wiki (client side) ; Exploring Wiki Pedia ; Odd Muse Wiki Engine (server side) ]

...06.0{ -03: Introducing my Tiddly Wiki Slice syntax into this microBlog as part of an effort to standardize the Wiki Markup I use. }


2012-q1 {Quarterly "visit".}

2011-q4 {Brief visit to check Recent Changes.}

2011-Q2: Awakening (at least momentarily, and perhaps only to look around).

2011-Q1: Dormant.

2010-Q4: Hibernated

2010-Q3: Review of Recent Changes as part of considering whether or not to try integrating the use of Amplify.

Considering the use of...

External services to enhance the value of wikis. For example...

Amplify, Del Icio Us and Dii Go can be used to hi-light page content and effectively add metaData Category tags.

"near" wikiWords in conjunction with The Brain's "ESP" capabilities.

2010-Q2: Off-net during extensive travel.

2010-Q1: Wondering how to contribute in 2010.

2009-Q4: Quick visit & review of Recent Changes.

2009-Q3: Added my name to the list of Del Icio Us users.

"-Q3 = (This) Quarter #3 (used during periods of less frequent updates in this site).

2009-03: Testing the use of Del Icio Us to index some of this site's content.

2009-01: Contemplating some of the apparent implications of the current Financial "meltdown".

2008 - entries on the Meat Ball Sister Site are more likely to be current.

2008-12-10: re-considering the usefulness of the Dii Go to me in annotating some of the ideas in this site.

2007-10 I finally realize that I need to over come the frustration of not knowing who is editing a page since User Name is no longer common use.

This seems to stem from the fact that I've always tried to "know the Audience".

2007-08 considering Tiddly Wiki and its Java Script capabilities as a client-side platform; with PERL for server-side uses.

2007-07 focused on using the Odd Muse Wiki Engine and its PERL foundation as a platform for extending server-side functionality.

2007-06 starting to focus on the Hyper Text (page) design issues arising from the intersection of HTML, Tags, Aj Ax, ...

resuming a bit of work on...

2006-12 Geocodes May Replace Addresses - encountering a bit of dissent, causing pondering and hiatus.

2006-11-25 finally started Geocodes May Replace Addresses.


2007-05 "Web Services" seem to be a current fad producing a flurry of development sometimes referred to as Social Computing.

Page Annotation systems that I am reviewing include Dii Go, Trail Fire, ...

Alternate 'Page' structures being reviewed include www.protopage.com , Php Bb (being revisited after a long time), ...

2007-02 I was "just lurking for now", but suddenly feel its more important than ever to become more active.

Perhaps one way is to enhance the pages on Sister Sites.

070225 - seems the "sister site icon' generation logic may no longer be working, based on The Brain & Meatball Wiki.

Please consider this to be more of a "question" that an request for action. After all, links work just fine, so there really appears to be little need for the sister site icons.

2005-12-21; starting to integrate Tiddly Wiki into my work methodology. First impressions are that this is a great improvement for several classes of problems I have struggled with.

Second impression is; only worth doing in a few, tool-specific, environments.

2008-04-019 Third impression; after using it in "specific" environments (thereby learning more), I now find myself using it a LOT!

T051130; (Time (20)05-11-30)) striving to standardise the markup I use across as many wikis as possible. 2006-11 - looking forward to Wiki Creole!

2004-05-2? - Having come to appreciate this community...

In any and all cases, I will strive to conform to the accepted practice of this community, in which I feel privileged to be a guest and strive to become a contributing member.

Upon reflection, I think it is even more important than I realized when I stated the preceding intention that I honor 'My Pledge To Wards Wiki'.

Having tried to 'grok' this c2 site during the last six months, I can really appreciate the clarity of the following statement (taken from Wiki Sig):

"A wiki is first of all a creative work. A wiki solicits community to participate in that creation, but it does not exist to create community. Dividing the community into interest groups cannot improve the quality or integrity of the work."

I believe this gives me much to muse about during in the future, such as;

There are wikis that believe creating a community is a primary Goal, as they explicitly documented in their Mission statements.


Thanks to whoever chided as follows (it caused me to reThink my statements.) I will try to rework the original text later. -- Hwo040613

Recursive inclusion means a page includes itself? That surely wouldn't be useful.

Would a page that inclues a link that refers to an internal anchor be considered an example of recursion.

A program that calls itself is traditionally considered to be recursive, even if the call is via a different Entry Point.

A recusive page is useful if it also contains a named anchor AND such a page is included in (more than one other page).

This can be thought of as a facet of Once And Only Once that creates some interesting capabilities. e.g.


I understand that idea, but would call it "nesting" rather than recursion. It's unclear whether it's really useful to provide similar functionality in the template.

Notes for the next version (with Thanks for the podding!):

Definitely refer to this as Nesting and not as Recursion. (My focus was distracted to 'recursion' since originally I was very concerned that a nested include, referring to a page in a circular manner, would cause a problem. Once I was told this could not happen, I tried it, confirm it worked and then became quite impressed by the effects that could be created this way, the circular include concern stuck in my mind as 'recursion'.

I'll develop an example that illustrates the benefits I think I am getting out of this. That will be a valuable step because it will either show me the error of my ways, encourage me to proceed, or (at the very least) become a valued reminder entry in my journal of 'how to avoid premature elation'.


original text...

I agree that, in general, Recursive inclusion is a very bad thing (infinite loop, memory 'pacMan', ... system crash!). Eddies Wiki, however, terminates the 'repeated' include when a page calls itself. This makes it possible to have a Table of Includes, the cells of which contain hyperlinks to other pages that themselves include ... etc. The result of this is a series of nested Tables that allow you to edit a deeply Included page once, and have that change appear to ripple up through all of the levels. I suspect that this is hard to understand without an illustration so I will try to cobble something together, but unfortunately won't be able to do so much before the weekend of the 20th. So far, in designing a mock up of a PIM for an associate, the design limitation of the logical table structures, the screen space, and the way Eddies' tables are implemented has kept me from getting into trouble with this relatively unorthodox, but really beneficial (if you hate typing) approach. -- hwo

Dated (Block 2)...

Useful hints for beginners I learned here:


quickDiff's are great, especially when used in conjunction with (the now defunct) Auto Pcn Results.

More About Extra Scripts - other useful capabilities.

Wiki Badges are a way of attracting attention. There are also FAQ pages and Question pages.

Quick Changes are a help if you want to see who and what topics are current.

How To Delete Pages. It took a while to find this, probably because Engineers only read instructions as a last resort.

Any Wiki Gnome (or anyone else with more experience in this community) should feel free to remove any items in this segment of this homePage to any Page better suited.

Static Menu For Wards Wiki is a great idea! I now use it in many other places too, including access to notes on my intranet wiki and am now considering making much more use of Java Script.

This site's relatively [ Zen | spartan ] nature makes the use of its backLinks feature (via the pageName) particularly useful.

User Name is a good thing to set and to remember to reset (after getting a new computer).

Pages that I have found useful during my initial explorations include: People Index, Text Formatting Rules, Find Page, ...

Conventions here are a little different than I am used to on the basis of using a version of Php-Wiki, so I am still experimenting... People Index, Free Link: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PeopleIndex c2.com, ...

(I have gotten into the habit of making initial notes like this one when I am learning, since I frequently find appreciative audiences and find it very much easier to give these notes to people later, when I have mastered a subject and can no longer easily remember the frustrations faced by a novice.)

linking pages with Trail Fire.


Prior 'Wiki Mail';


2007-06-05: Hans, while my position on information that is no longer being worked on remains unchanged (i.e., it should be stored in some form of marked up text that can be viewed in a text editor in extremis), I do have a use for more dynamically changing information. I think you should take a look at sourceforge.net i.e., Total text Container. The author just added a diagram node so now he has document, multi-sheeted spreadsheet, archive and text object nodes. It is unstable and still being developed but the possibilities are interesting. albertde

I agree it looks interesting, but I feel its a bit too early for me to get involved with it, given my current commitments. I'll check back next month and see if its a bit more stable.

P.S I find a Real Name to be more conducive to interactions.

-- Hans

2007-05-13: I think you should update your blurb about Tiddly Wiki - it is way out of date. I personally am using Tiddlywiki for my current (aktuell) content and then when things die down (e.g., contract over, taxes done), I move the stuff over to Ryan's Wiki Server (yea!) or Sdi Desk (for calendar related stuff or when I feel like building a simple mindmap for content.) I have a Gema Pad script to convert Tiddly Wiki syntax to the other two and then finish off the fancy tables by hand. I am starting to explore Total Text (RTF boo). It is not web-based but is an outline application similar to Key Note but w/o multiple tabs and with spreadsheet and calendar nodes. albertde

Thanks for taking the time to post a comment "albertde". One of the reasons that the Tiddly Wiki page is out of date is that I really don't think it belongs to any "one" person. I may have been the last person to make a contribution to it, but that is all I've done. The bulk of the content was contributed by others.

Feel free to make any updates you think might be helpful.

By the way, I found your description of the tools you use interesting. In fact, I'm a fan of Wx Wiki Server as well, and still use it when I need to create a lot of content in a hurry since I can use my text editor to access its flat files, most efficiently.

Lately (a 2008-01 update), I find myself making more and more use of Tiddly Wiki, especially in conjunction with the Tiddly Tools plugins.


older material removed to an 'attic'.

"Chained" pages (this was an attempt to work around the fact that the Sister Pages mechanism no longer seems to work, using the now defunct ~Trail Fire)...


See original on c2.com